Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm going to order a fret leveling beam (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TECHNOFRET-19-fret-leveling-beam-luthier-tool-/180903310166?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item2a1ead7356) tonight, but I was wondering, is a notched straight edge going to be essential for establishing a flat fretboard?

There are cheaper notched straight edges, but one for about £30 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Notched-straight-edge-luthiers-tool-for-guitar-builders-UK-made-/161046938749?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item257f25447d)seems like a decent upgrade. It is black and has a beveled edge to help with checking for gaps. Is it worth it? Is it necessary?

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Nick

I'm sure they are fine but you can make something to do the job for a fraction of the cost. Carry on buying like that and the bailiffs will be around in no time!

Thanks for the advice, Michael. What do you use instead?

(The way I see things, if I can get something for £15, or something slightly better for £30, I go for the more expensive one and only think of the difference. What's that quote, the bitterness of high price goes away much quicker than that of using a poor tool? Something like that...

And believe me, I'm not one for spending for the sake of it. These are the first dedicated luthier tools I've considered. I just have carpentry tools. I'm thinking of buying a Stanley 62 low angle plane, too. Should I just buy a cheap number 5?


I was thinking, a friend of mine has recently bought a £2000 guitar... I went on a course with a luthier to build one, built one on my own, invested in various necessary tools, and I'm set up to build many more, and I've still not spent anywhere near that much. I'm happy to invest a little in things, maybe these aren't the right choices?

Well my advice (FWIW) would be to buy a good known tolerance straight edge. If that includes ruled divisions, all the better. With that straight edge you can make your own notched straight edge, be it from wood or simply using a cheap metal ruler.
It's not a matter of buying cheap or expensive tools, it's a matter of buying the tools that get the job done. I'm virtually all hand tool but I've managed to waste a fair amount on 'luthier tools'. I think I've had 3 different commercial soundhole cutters and 3 different commercial purfling cutters. One day I finally managed to make both types of tools for less than £1. Not only that but they actually work better/faster/easier than the stuff I went out and bought! Think popsicle stick and you get the idea.
Which Stanley 62, the new or the old one?

Not wanting to encourage the baliffs to come in, but......
If you are thinking of a new Sweetheart, perhaps you might consider this - http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Quangsheng_No._62_Low_Angle_Jack_Plane.html
(Older Stanley 62s in good condition can be expensive as they are collector's items)
You may well find the Quangsheng requires less tuning than the Sweetheart and the extra blades make it very versatile. The T10 blades are excellent and the plane bodies are guaranteed better than +/-1.5 thou tolerance.
The technofret levelling beam should be very good, the seller is a member here, and like workshop heaven, any problems should be resolved quickly. (I have had several purchases from WH and no questions refund or replacement if out of quoted spec.)
Having said that, for fret leveling I am using a spirit level that has a very true flat base and cost £9.50.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I was looking at this one, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stanley-STA112137-62-Low-Angle-Sweetheart-Jack-Plane-woodworking-wood-/121079762850?pt=UK_Collectable_ToolsHasdware_RL&hash=item1c30ea8fa2, but I haven't decided for sure yet.

I joined the top and back with a very old Stanley that wasn't really long enough and I'd like to make that part of the process a bit more enjoyable. Any suggestions for the best, reasonably priced plane for the job would be welcome.

About the notched straight edge; that sounds like a decent idea. May I ask what you use for fret leveling? File or flat wooden beam I suppose?

I'm just trying to find the right mix of tools to suit me. Some people obviously think they're worth it(?).

Thanks, Colin, I linked to the plane I was looking at in my last post ^. Thanks for the recommendation, this is another time where I'll be considering the £40 or £50 difference between options (which is practically wiped out by the extra blades anyway) rather than the full £150 price. I don't want to spend a fortune but I don't want to regret not buying the right tool for the job. And I'm quite comfortable buying new, I want these to be tools for life, not tools for two peoples lives! lol

Maybe others will think I should save money on the plane, too.

I like the idea of the Technofret beam being so accurate, when you're aiming for such slight relief it seems necessary. I suppose it isn't though. Decisions, decisions.

I don't use a leveling beam. I just check the fretboard surface with my straightedge. If I were to use one then I'd probably just use my trusty spirit level. if that wasn't flat I'd soon make sure it was.
The plane you linked to is the new Stanley SW 62. I don't have that one but I do have their SW No.4. I don't think I will have it for much longer. It's a very good plane and cuts just as well as any out there. . . but it's just too heavy! Another waste of money! The 62, No. 5 or 5.5 will do all you need - jointing, thicknessing and even smoothing. If you can pick up a used Stanley 102 for £1- buy it (don't pay more). For that money they are a very handy little Plane, much underrated.

I could use the old No 5 I've got again but it wasn't much fun last time. I thought it may be more enjoyable with a longer, low angle plane. Maybe I should spend some money on a better set of sharpening stones than the standard Stanley one?

Did you really mean £1? I've got a cheapo block plane that I despise and also want to replace but I was thinking something more along the lines of a quality low angle one.

OK £2 then. 102's are seen as being a POS. They aren't.
Post some pics of your No.5. My first few Guitars were built with a Stanley No.5 - bought it new early 1980's complete with plastic handles. Now that really was a POS. The casting was so terrible. Yet another complete waste of money!

Mine was a hand-me-down, and it is plastic, and I consider it a POS though I rarely say it in case I'm told I'm a bad workman blaming his tools.

I'm thinking, seeing as I may as well make notched straight edges myself, I may get a better sharpening stone with that money instead. Could I get away with one of these? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ice-Bear-Japanese-Waterstone-Combination-1000-6000-G-/310265398380?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item483d42446c

Seeing as a spirit level would cost me a tenner, anyway, I'm still considering the fret leveling beam. I suppose I could use a 2x1.

thou shall not...

well least me didn't
No me did not...me use an old wooden yard stick,
then me got me one of them there aluminium yard stick

both been going strong for 40 or so years now.

Dude, there are more ways to feed the cat besides wasting good money on fancy toys....well maybe you gots the money.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Thank you, Filippo, I'm glad I'm not on my own.

I've got all the parts to build a thickness sander, and I'm going to make a go-bar deck and radius dishes myself, but some things just seem reasonable to buy.

Oh well, chances are that your Plane isn't very good. I could advise you to buy an older Stanley/Record but they may take some tuning to be of their best. Doesn't always follow though. I have a 1970's Stanley 5.5 that works incredibly well, never been tuned and has the stock thin blade. The best bargains to be had are the old English wooden planes (can be had seriously cheap) but again you need to know what you are buying and how to get the best out of them.
Both the Quangsheng and the Stanley SW you are virtually guaranteed that they will work straight out of the box- the only improvement you can make is to get the blade a bit sharper.
I have a number of sharpening stones but only ever use 2 of them - a coarse Oil stone and a 8,000 King waterstone. I'm mixing the mediums. the 6,000 waterstone should be perfectly adequate for a polished edge. You might have to strop on a leather but I do that with the 8,000.

Thanks [The] Padma, I've not gots the money but, blimey, if I can't afford to spend the odd £30 to help building a high quality instrument, I should never go out to dinner when I could just make a sandwich.

I may just use a piece of 2x1 and see how it goes. And drill out a ruler to make a notched straight edge. I'm feeling guilt for suggesting I could buy anything.

And, Michael, I may as well go for that stone, hey? I'm not going to shell out £90 for one of those 8000 grit stones.

Thanks, Todd. I like that way of thinking. I have been known as a worrier, but I just like to be sure.
All the very best!

I made a combination notched beam from aluminum bar stock and also milled a plain straightedge on the other edge. Turns out to be very handy and helps with setups. I supposed you'd have to get one for every scale but that's the breaks. I think the notched edge is worth having.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Thanks for the input, Stuart! I have no experience in metal work, I'm not set up to do any, and don't fancy it much other than banging in frets! Maybe it would be better for me to buy one.

One of these: http://www.mscdirect.com/product/06112106

And one of these: http://www.mscdirect.com/product/80758113

Will make a pretty darn precise notched straightedge.

Thanks, John, but that comes to $30 and if it's the same in pounds (which it often is) then I can get the precision made, beveled one for the same price and with no filing necessary (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Notched-straight-edge-luthiers-tool-for-guitar-builders-UK-made-/161046938749?pt=UK_Guitar_Accessories&hash=item257f25447d), or the cheapo one for half the price.

A cheaper route into sharpening would be to look at the scary sharp method.

All you need is a flat surface such as a piece of thick Float Glass or I use a granite chopping board from Morrisons and several grits of wet and dry (or you can buy the more expensive but better 3m lapping films) in say 240, 400, 800 and 2000. Just use spray adhesive to stick strips of the wet and dry to the flat service and hone away you can get an extremely sharp edge with a little practice. Workshop Heven http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Scary_Sharpening.html sell a complete set up for around £60, but really I would make your own. I think my initial outlay was under £20

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Nick

Follow my musings on getting started in luthiery http://www.tredwellinstruments.co.uk

I bought a Technofret beam a while ago and use it a lot, I also bought a tapered reamer which is excellent and very good value. As for planes I found an old Stanley no. 5 and replaced the blade with a lie nielsen from axminster. I also got a lie nielsen improved chip breaker but have yet to install it as I need to modify the y lever to accept the extra thickness somehow. The LN blade has made all the difference for me...

don´t know about the fret leveling stuff, but those quangsheng planes are amazing value. bedrock design and blades hold a fine edge too. you can find them at WorkshopHaven or Dieter Schmid´s, if you´re not after the low angle stuff (i´m saying this because a n. 5 is slightly cheaper at dieter´s - and i also like the bronze cap).

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

Scary sharp starts getting expensive in the long run. Cheap to try out and not a bad option if you're not be in it for the long run.
The after market blades and chipbreakers aren't the best option IMO - been there done it, a few times. By the time you've paid for the Plane, the blade and the chipbreaker you may as well go out and by a new Stanley SW or Quangsheng. Both of those planes have very good blades and chipbreakers.
Derek. I once mounted an old tapered Sorby blade into a Stanley No.4. Really thick blade - I think it was 4 mm at the cutting end. I tried brazing the extension onto the stock chipbreaker and that worked for a few months before it came off. In the end I brazed an extended piece onto the yolk and that's been fine for the past 4 years or so. . . . but in the end it's a lot of work, especially if you value instrument building time. I mess around and try many different Planes because I like . . . messing around with Planes.

Michael, I have tried to braze with not much success! I think I have found a replacement lever online - http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/Record_Plane_Y-Lever.html but doesnt look long enough to me?

For sharpening I have a combination waterstone and a friend gave me a quite useless 'fast track' thing which I perservere with until it gets thrown in the corner